Sometime last week, I got into a debate with a good friend of mine over Twitter regarding Rick Warren’s decision to have the Jonas Brothers perform at Saddleback’s upcoming Easter service. The conversation was lengthy and, at times, intense. My critique is this: superstar performances have absolutely no place in the church service. As if it weren’t bad enough that most worship teams act like entertainers with their guitar solos, flashy lights, and the like (all while we try to communicate to our congregation that that’s NOT what worship is), now we’re actually going to bring in the Jonas Brothers…to perform…at a worship service…in a church…where Jesus is supposed to be the focus…on the day we celebrate his resurrection from the dead. Praise the Lord…now lets get our pre-pubescent rock on!
I know I’m going to be thrown to the dogs for that, but that’s the way I see it.
And then…THEN…today Rick Warren updates Twitter with this, “A church content with not growing is saying to a lost world ‘You can go to hell’. Growth requires unselfish members & sacrifice.”
Really, Rick? Really?!?!
What’s with the obsession with numbers? Oh, I know, you (or more likely your supporters) will come along and say, “Growing isn’t just about numbers,” but I know what you meant – or, if I’m mistaken, you should have been smart enough to word your update differently. But I don’t think you’re that dumb. I think you knew people would be upset about this and made it just vague enough to have an out should the pressure come.
Where’s the Biblical Evidence for Focusing on Growth?
I imagine getting a response to this point that looks something like this: “Of course the early church were concerned with growth…look how much they grew!” Indeed they did grow, but there is no indication that anything they did was done for the sake of getting bigger nor were did they seem at all concerned with “growing”. Even Jesus’ Great Commission doesn’t get us to this conclusion. He told his disciples to go out and make more disciples. Keep in mind that his disciples, at this point, consisted of 120 or so (those who were in the upper room) – down from at least 5,000 men (not to mention women and children) whom he fed at one point.
Jesus didn’t seem very concerned about it. In fact, we have no evidence that this was troubling to him at all. He even told us that the way to life was narrow and not many took it.
Even more, Paul wrote to a lot of churches, some of which were small. And in Revelation, when John was writing to the churches, one of them is referred to as having “little strength” which seems to be referring to their size…did God just leave out the bit about how they needed to be less content with their size? Actually, isn’t it interesting that none of the churches were either commended or critiqued for their numerical growth or concern thereof.
You know what those churches were commended/critiqued for, though? And you know what the New Testament writers went to great lengths to instruct believers about? Remaining faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ (were again are his teachings about growth?), enduring hardship, and living in light of their new identity.
Nothing about growth. In fact, the believers are often warned against focusing on anything else because doing so detracts from the mission that God gave to them. Its a funny thing: a church cannot see growth by showing concern for it. A church will only see growth when it loses all concern for it.
I want to be clear about something: I have nothing against Rick Warren. He has never harmed me or done anything to me personally. In fact, I retweeted one of his tweets yesterday where he said that one of the lies of our culture is that sex is only physical and agreed with it. But I’m under no obligation to agree with everything he does or says.
Anyways, some questions that came up for me as a result of this tweet:
- How much emphasis should a church put on growing?
- What of the churches who are doing everything they should be doing, including evangelism, but are not growing?
- Is it the church’s responsibility to grow itself? Where does God come into the picture?
- Why did the early church never seem concerned with growth?
- Is it possible to grow a large church and still not have much discipleship?
- What makes a “successful” church? Their size?
- If growth requires unselfish members and sacrifice, we don’t actually need Jesus to grow our churches…do we?
Finally, I ask if Rick Warren is simply fooling himself. Willow Creek was. As one of the largest churches in the country, they could have easily assumed all was well – if they’re growing they’re doing something right…right? Wrong. They actually realized that they were doing a lot wrong after they took the time to take an honest look at themselves. Turns out that a concern for growth left them unable to disciple the mature Christians in their midst. They made a huge shift.
So I respond to Rick Warren with this, “A church focused on growing will inevitably be sending people to hell. A concern for growth represents the refusal to ‘seek first the Kingdom.’”
Filed under: Uncategorized Tagged: | Church, Church Growth, Rick Warren
I think it was Ed Stetzer who said that whatever you use to bring people “in” is what you bring people “to.” In other words, I think you’re asking good questions. If the church wanted to host a concert, then *maybe* I would be ok with this. But to actually have it in the context of a worship service seems…odd…and it definitely seems out of place given the context.
I have to agree and disagree with you. I agree that having the Jonas bros is a pretty transparent marketing stunt. I have to disagree with a lack of biblical focus on growth. I don’t know how discipleship, community, and growth could at any point be mutually exclusive. The church is not best suited to tear it self apart over methods and Paul would agree with that. To the church that isn’t growing and doing everything in its power to grow than I am sure Rick wouldn’t fault it.
The question remains is this stunt getting more people exposed to the Gospel?
I think it is very arrogant to judge the Jonas bros as having an Ego all about them without knowing them. I am going to withhold judgment in hopes that God will honor what they are doing.
I think that its key to remember you are not responsible for what someone else can do… you are responsible for what you can do.
On twitter
@mhandy1
Hey Mike, thanks for chiming in.
To clarify, I’m not saying that churches shouldn’t rejoice when they grow or that discipleship and growth are mutually exclusive. I’m saying that when growth becomes a concern or focus for the church, that impedes discipleship and the rest.
Growth may happen, but I don’t see any Biblical evidence for it being a focus of the church’s as if we should fret when it is not.
Perhaps I should have been more clear about that.
I also agree and disagree with you, but it’s kind of a tricky matter on which I disagree.
To start with, I agree that bringing in superstars to lead worship is pretty ridiculous. Will I go because I love the JoBros? Quite possibly. But that’s why I’d be going. Lucky for me, I already have Jesus, and I consider myself discerning enough to distinguish between being enamored by the showmanship of a worship team and actually worshiping.
Sometimes music can be a great way to get the gospel out there, and other times it can completely distract from it. I can’t begin to tell you the amount of people I know who were devout Christians when they were into Christian music, but completely dropped out of the whole church thing once they outgrew their love of CCM. It’s a very real problem and an extremely fine line. A lot of that has to do with how well the church then grounds people in the word after dazzling them with their stage act.
Where I disagree has to do with the growth of the church, and it’s more a matter of the wording than it is an issue with your actual point. Where I agree with Rick Warren is that if you’re not seeking to grow the Church, as in the family of God, you’re not caring enough about people’s souls. In terms of actual growth of individual congregations, it really shouldn’t matter about the size. Church size can be an indication of spiritual health, but it can also be an indication of watering your message down for popularity’s sake (*cough*JoelOsteen*cough*). I think (most) churches that do this don’t do it deliberately to trade the message for a crowd, but doing this definitely mistakes cause and effect. Jesus should be the cause for a big congregation, not the church’s worship team or visual display.
So I think that Bible has a lot to say about growing the family of God, but speaks pretty damningly against those who are putting on a show and gathering up praise for themselves instead of the guy upstairs. I guess I’m not so much disagreeing with you as much as I am interpreting Rick’s comment differently. Neither of us, without talking to him directly, can say for sure which way he meant it. I THINK that he meant that churches should be seeking to show people the love of God, but coming from a megachurch pastor, he should know that it sure looks like he’s playing the numbers game.
I also would like to toss out… look at acts again… look how many times it says that their numbers were added to daily. It says it quite a bit, so clearly growth is important. The theme continues throughout the new testament.
Now on to how you are seeing it:
Is growth a litmus test to health or doctrine.. absolutely not! Is lack of growth a litmus test to health or doctrine of the congregation.. I would have to say MAYBE. One of the core things Rick Warren and churches in general have to deal with is inward growth. Growing out is scary ..growing in is safe… The gospel demands us to grow out! Growing in happens when we start to have lots of Christian only events… we start to do things just because its a chance to hang out with just Christians… we grow in!
I think this is where the parable of the talents comes in… are you supposed to have a mega church…maybe… are you suppose to use everything God has given you to further the kingdom? YES…
Jesus doesn’t compare or would take issue with anyones return rate or amount.. he only comes down on the servant who did nothing with his Talent… I think your frustration is clouding your judgement a little here.
Rick Warren has the opportunity to share the Gospel to fans of the Jonas Bros… he probably has to take it. Sorry if that annoys you… but If I had the opportunity to share the gospel with fans of any large music group.. I’d probably have to take it!
Mike,
You’ve made a classic mistake when it comes to Acts – you’ve taken something that is merely a description of what happened (their number was added to daily) and made it one of prescription (so should ours).
But that is a substantial leap in logic and, again, I challenge you to find one instance of when the New Testament writers either commended a church for their growth or condemned a church for their lack thereof.
Also, I think it inconsistent to say that growth is not a litmus test for health but the lack thereof could be a litmus test for unhealth. And, again, where is this litmus test employed by the writers of the Bible?
Your parable of the talents doesn’t quite translate over. I’m not advocating that Rick Warren’s church (or any church for that matter) do nothing. I’m asking for Biblical evidence for a concern for “church growth” and whether it makes sense to have superstar performances at times reserved for the worship of Jesus Christ.
This isn’t about whether we should take advantage of opportunities to share the gospel with large groups of people.
I’m guessing you wouldn’t be so willing to leave Warren uncritiqued if it were, say, Lady Gaga or Kanye West?